Corrected Minutes of the Teleconference
Meeting of the
National Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Codes And Standards Coordinating
Committee (NHFCC&SCC)
MEETING DATE: October 12, 2005
TIME: 3:00 - 4:30 PM (EDT)
1.0 PARTICIPANTS
The list of participants in the teleconference meeting is provided
in Attachment
A.
2.0 REVIEW OF ANTI-TRUST POLICY
USFCC Codes and Standards Working Group meetings begin with
the reminder to review and follow the anti-trust guidelines
at the following web sites:
Antitrust
Guidelines (27Kb PDF)
Memo
on Antitrust Guidelines (24Kb PDF)
3.0 CORRECTIONS TO MINUTES OF AUGUST MEETING
There were no additions or corrections to the Minutes of the
September 7th teleconference meeting.
NHA will post the Minutes to the official website of the Coordinating
Committee at:
www.hydrogenandfuelcellsafety.info
4.0 OPPORTUNITY FOR DOE/HQ SUBPROGRAM MANAGER TO
REPORT ON WHAT'S GOING ON AT DOE/HQ
Pat Davis (DOE/HQ Technology Development Manager for Safety,
Codes and Standards) reported first on the FY06 budget (including
planned subcontracts). He indicated that the Department is currently
operating under a Continuing Resolution, as the budget has not
yet been passed. As a result, there aren't many changes at this
point from FY2005, as they are following FY 2005 guidance. In
FY 2006, DOE is planning to bump up hydrogen quality work -
support of R&D. Most work that directly funds the CDOs and
SDOs now runs through NREL. DOE is expecting to let a solicitation
in approximately two months for a large contract to put all
of the subcontracted codes and standards development work under
one contract. DOE is looking for single management company to
manage the subcontractors. Since the contractor must have no
ties to SDOs and CDOs, it is not likely to be anyone we've heard
of. This change was to take effect in FY06, but due to budget
delays, may end up being mainly for effect in FY07 and beyond.
The winning contractor will work closely with NREL to implement
the project.
5.0 RESULTS FROM THE ICC FINAL ACTIONS HEARINGS
HELD IN DETROIT DURING THE PERIOD SEPTEMBER 28 -
OCTOBER 2
Darren Meyers was not on the call. Robert Wichert reported that
the hydride proposal to remove the work done previously to include
hydrides in the ICC International Fire Code passed, so hydrides
are removed from the code. The vehicle exemption also passed.
Additional information provided by Russ Hewett after the teleconference
meeting:
At the ICC Code Development Hearings (i.e., the
first step in the approval process) held in Cincinnati, OH
during the period 21 February - 4 March 2005, all of the new/modification
requirements developed by the ICC Ad Hoc Committee for Hydrogen
Gas received preliminary approval. The requirements were for
the following codes:
- International Building Code
- International Fire Code
- International Fuel Gas Code
At the ICC 2005 Final Action Hearings held in Detroit during
the period September 28 - October 2, the new/modification
proposals received final approval for
incorporation into the 2006 Editions of the codes.
On the other hand, at the Final Action Hearings, the ICC approved
deletion from the International Fire Code all of the language
that directly relates to metal hydride systems. This means
that metal hydride systems could not be stored or used in
buildings that are not designed, built, maintained and classified
as a hazardous occupancy (Group H) area.
6.0 REPORTS ON ISO AND IEC DOCUMENTS IN THE "COMMENTS"
OR "REVIEW" STAGE
Kelvin Hecht provided a report on upcoming meetings and last
calls for public comments on draft standards as follows:
(1) Events to Be Held in October
- World H2 Technologies Convention 2005
10/3-6 Singapore
- 9th Grove Fuel Cell Symposium
10/4-6 London, UK
- IEC TC105 WG#5 Stationary Fuel Cells-Installation
10/17-19 Toronto, Canada
- SAE Fuel Cell Standards
- 10/18-20 Troy, MI
- 10/18-19 Safety & Interface
Working Groups
- 10/19 Performance Working
Group
- 10/19 H2 Specification Task
Force
- 10/20 Fuel Cell Standards
Committee
- Fuel Cell Summit 2005
10/23-25 Mohegan Sun Casino, CT
- USTAG ISO TC197
10/27 Chantilly, VA
- CGA Hydrogen Committee
10/27 Chantilly, VA
(2) Events Held in September
- International Conference on H2 Safety (Pisa, Italy)
- SAE Fuel Cell Standards (Troy, MI)
- ASME H2 Piping & Pipeline Project Team (Cincinnati,
OH)
- ICC Final Action Hearings (Detroit, MI)
(3) Standards Open for Public Comments LAST CALL
- IEC 62282-3-1 (TC105 WG#3) Stationary Fuel Cells-Safety
- US comments due 9/30/05
- Closing date 10/21/05
- IEC 62282-6-1 (TC105 WG#8) Micro Fuel Cell Power Systems
- US comments due 10/21/05
- Closing date 11/4/05
- ISO 22734-1 (TC197 WG#8) H2 Generator Using Electrolysis
- US comments due 10/11/05
- Closing date 12/29/05
- (d) NIST Hydrogen Gas Meter Code
http://fuelcellstandards.com/Hydrogen%20Gas%20Meters.pdf
Bob Mauro reported that an informal hydrogen quality meeting
took place in San Francisco a couple weeks ago, and indicated
that a report on the meeting would be welcome. Bill Collins
stated the SAE and ISO documents agree on all but CO2. Particulate
levels discrepancy turned out to be merely a typo during conversion
to metric units.
Bob Mauro indicated that comments on the ISO draft electrolyzer
standard are coming in and will be discussed during the US TAG
meeting scheduled for 27 October. The ISO TC 197 WG 9 standard
for hydrogen generation from fossil fuel processes is imminent.
The New Work Item Proposal (NWIP) proposal from Japan on hydrogen
sensors has passed although the US abstained. The US, Canada
and Germany all commented that the work should be carried out
by IEC TC 31. ISO TC 197 has approved the NWIP and indicated
that this work will have to be carried out in liaison with IEC/TC
31 Equipment for Explosive Atmosphere. ISO TC 197 is currently
working with IEC/TC 31 in trying to have their experts nominated
to this working group.
Bob also indicated there is an open question regarding a 5-year
review on refueling facilities or interface to continue the
standard, open it for full review or write a new standard. There
was not much automotive industry involvement originally. There
is now an opportunity to recast this with more OEM input.
With respect to ISO 17268 WG 5, Mike Steele asked whether the
WG meeting on Nov. 8 in Palm Springs will involve a WG vote
to take draft to FDIS (i.e. Final Draft International Standard).
Bob indicated that a full committee (TC 197) vote would be required
- although the WG might make recommendation to move it to TC
for FDIS vote. The US has pressed for technical changes after
the DIS (i.e., Draft International Standard) vote but before
the FDIS - and had an agreement as such from the convener.
This solution may have been turned down at the Secretariat level.
Mike Steele voiced concerned about additional technical changes
that were made and agreed to after the comments phase. Bob Mauro
admitted this situation represents a political, technical and
administrative problem for the US. Mike indicated that the SAE
meets the week before - and the SAE Interface Group is scheduled
to discuss this issue.
Frank Neizbytowski will be at US TAG meeting to bring SAE concerns
to TC 197. Bob Mauro will arrive a few days early and discuss
the situation with the Secretary and Chairman of TC 197 to try
to resolve the issue. Jesse Schneider pointed the danger of
having more than one nozzle geometry.
Robert Wichert indicated that IEC TC 105 WG8 has a draft document
out for comment - and the corresponding Publicly Available Specification
(PAS) seems to have passed.
Bob
Mauro's report (62Kb PDF)
7.0 REPORT ON FC TEST NET (i.e., EUROPEAN COMMUNITY
PROJECT TO DEVELOP FUEL CELL TESTING PROTOCOLS
FOR ALL TYPES OF FUEL CELLS FOR ALL APPLICATIONS)
Ira Bloom was not on the call. Robert Wichert reported the idea
was to file NWIPs (i.e., New Work Item Proposals) at IEC TC
105 for a glossary update and the single cell test standard.
The group met in Italy and decided not to file a NWIP for the
single cell test standard yet. They will meet in Palm Springs
to determine what is appropriate - a Technical Report, Technical
Specification, Standard, etc.
8.0 ACTION ITEM FROM THE SEPTEMBER MEETING:
PROPOSAL FOR ACHIEVING EFFICIENT, EFFECTIVE
COORDINATION BETWEEN THE NATIONAL
COORDINATING COMMITTEE AND THE US TAG TEAMS
Karen Hall reviewed the draft
document by NREL (100Kb PDF).
The group had no proposed changes, but wondered about item number
5 -- Maintain (and report on) a spreadsheet of International
Standards and Global Technical Regulations under development
and where they stand in the development process (for each document
maintain a listing of issues, concerns, etc. affecting US interests).
Specifically, the question was about who would maintain it,
and where it would be available? Karen offered that the NHA
could post the information at the official site for the Coordinating
Committee at www.hydrogenandfuelcellsafety.info.
If the Coordinating Committee can obtain the information, it
is easily integrated into the appropriate area on the website.
9.0 PLANNING THE IN-PERSON MEETING OF THE NATIONAL
COORDINATING COMMITTEE SCHEDULED FOR NOVEMBER 16TH IN PALM SPRINGS,
CA IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE USFCC 2005 FUEL CELL SEMINAR
Karen led participants through the planning
document (93Kb PDF).
The document shows the preliminary planning done, so far, regarding
the meeting. There were no requested changes. Robert Wichert
indicated it would be possible to call in for the meeting if
participants could not attend in person. Robert will provide
a call-in number in advance of the meeting.
10.0 OPPORTUNITY FOR CDOS AND SDOS TO GIVE REPORTS
ON THEIR ACTIVITIES AS THEY RELATE TO COORDINATION
Ron Sims provided a summary of the status of SAE Standards as
of the end of September 2005.
SAE J2616 (Performance - Fuel Processor System Testing)
had been approved by the SAE Motor Vehicle Council for publication.
SAE J2617 (Performance - Fuel Cell Stack Testing) had
completed its ballot with several disapprove vote comments from
OEMs and FC developers. The WG had begun the necessary rework
of the document.
SAE J2572 (Hydrogen FCV Fuel Economy Measurement) has
been submitted to SAE staff, following some additional late
revisions, with the intent of re-balloting in October.
The SAE Refueling Interface Working Group reported, that in
support of its reviewing refueling coupling designs appropriate
for 700-bar refueling, an SAE letter would be sent to nozzle
suppliers requesting their test data for a March 2006 selection
decision.
The next full meeting of the SAE Fuel Cell Standards Committee
will be held on October 20th 2005 at the SAE Troy office, Michigan.
With regards to the remainder of 2005, the Committee voted to
eliminate the December 8th FCSC meeting, making the October
meeting the last of the current year.
SAE Task Groups and the full committee met the week of September
13. SAE presented Ron with a plaque for 15 years service in
automotive codes and standards. With Ron's retiring, a new FCSC
Chairman is required for 2006. The change of Chairman will be
ratified by the SAE FCSC members.
Note: Subsequent to the meeting, it was learned
that two candidates have been nominated for the position of
Chairman and that further nominations will be accepted until
November 8th. Voting will follow later this fall.
11.0 REPORT REGARDING THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
STATE FIRE MARSHALLS HYDROGEN EXECUTIVE LEADERSHIP PANEL'S (HELP)
FIRST ANNUAL SAFETY SUMMIT
The First Annual Safety Summit was conducted on 3-4 October
in Detroit at NEXTENERGY. Bill Chernicoff reported on this joint
effort of DOT and State Fire Marshals. Antonio Ruiz reported
high attendance from DOT. USDOT Secretary Mineta, Congressman
Dingle, and the new political head of DOT were among the dignitaries
present. During the first day, there was a discussion - good
dialog - addressing the tough questions: managing risks, public
perceptions, safety community perceptions, etc. This was a good
first step in the development of a national training program
and education material for the long term. The website is being
updated - and the workshop results will be posted soon: www.nasfmhydrogen.com.
The purpose is to get to the Emergency Responders the information
they need to make decisions. DOE is involved in getting the
curriculum together. Fire Marshals have been very selective
about who they ask to participate. DOT has encouraged a healthy
degree of skepticism from participants.
12.0 NEXT COORDINATING COMMITTEE MEETING
The next meeting of the Coordinating Committee is scheduled
to be an In-Person meeting in conjunction with the USFCC 2005
Fuel Cell Seminar:
- DATE: November 16, 2005 (Wednesday)
- LOCATION: Wyndham Palm Springs Hotel
(Seminar Headquarters Hotel: 888 Tahquitz Canyon Way )
- TIME: Continental Breakfast: 7:00 - 7:30 am
- MEETING: 7:30 - 9:30 am
It will be possible to participate by teleconferencing. The
Call-In number will be provided in the Final Announcement. This
meeting will serve as the November and December meetings.
Respectfully submitted,
Karen Hall
ATTACHMENT A
TELECONFERENCE MEETING PARTICIPANTS (12Oct05)
| NAME |
ORGANIZATION |
PRESENT
At Meeting?
(Yes/No) |
| Adam Gromis |
California Fuel Cell Partnership |
N |
| Algis Vasys |
Vista Consulting Group |
N |
| Andrei Tchouvelev |
A. V. Tchouvelev & Associates,
Inc. |
N |
| Antonio Ruiz |
USDOE/Hydrogen, Fuel Cell and Infrastructure
Technologies Program |
Y |
| Bill Chernicoff |
USDOT/Research and Innovative Technologies
Administration(RITA)/Washington |
Y |
| Bill Collins |
UTC Fuel Cells |
Y |
| Bill Hoagland |
Hoagland and Associates |
Y |
| Bob Mauro |
Consultant to NREL |
Y |
| Brad Smith |
Shell Hydrogen |
Y |
| Bruce Kinzey |
Pacific Northwest Laboratory |
N |
| Carl Rivkin |
National Fire Protection Association
(NFPA) |
N |
| Cathy Gregoire-Padro |
Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) |
Y |
| Christina Zhang-Tillman |
California Fuel Cell Partnership |
Y |
| Christopher Moen |
Sandia National Laboratories/Livermore |
Y |
| Dan Casey |
Chevron |
N |
| Darren Meyers |
International Code Council (ICC) |
N |
| Debbie Angerman |
Compressed Gas Association (CGA) |
N |
| Doug Horne |
DBHORNE
Technology Management
|
N |
| Gary Howard |
Stuart Energy Systems |
N |
| George Earle |
Plug Power |
N |
| George Kervitsky |
SENTECH |
N |
| George Thomas |
Consultant to Sandia
National Laboratories
|
N |
| Gerry Myers |
SPRINT |
N |
| Greg Milewski |
Shell Oil Products |
N |
| Hank Seiff |
Clean Vehicle Education Foundation |
Y |
| Holly Thomas |
National Renewable Energy Laboratory
(NREL) |
Y |
| Jeff Grant |
Ballard Generation Systems |
N |
| Jesse Schneider |
DaimlerChrysler |
Y |
| Jim McGetrick |
BP |
N |
| John Koehr |
American Society of Mechanical Engineers
(ASME) |
N |
Juana Williams
|
NIST
|
Y |
| Julie Cairns |
CSA America |
Y |
| Julie Willets |
SPRINT
|
N |
| Karen Hall |
National Hydrogen Association (NHA) |
Y |
| Keith Hardy |
Argonne National Laboratory |
N |
| Kelvin Hecht |
ANSI, IEC and Consultant to NREL |
Y |
| Ken Krastins |
Plug Power |
Y |
| Larry Johnson |
SPRINT |
N |
| Larry Moulthrop |
Proton Energy Systems |
N |
Laurie Florence
|
Underwriters Laboratories |
Y |
| Mark Richards |
Gas Technology Institute |
Y |
| Michael Steele |
General Motors Advanced Technology
Vehicles |
Y |
| Patrick Serfass |
National Hydrogen Association (NHA) |
N |
| Pat Davis |
USDOE/Hydrogen, Fuel Cell and Infrastructure
Technologies Program |
Y |
| Paul Buehler |
Plug Power, Inc. |
Y |
| Prentiss Searles |
American Petroleum Institute (API) |
N |
| Robert Wichert |
US Fuel Cell Council (USFCC) |
Y |
| Roger Smith |
Compressed Gas Association (CGA) |
N |
| Ron Sims |
Society of Automobile Engineers (SAE)
and Consultant to NREL |
Y |
| Sondra Ullman |
Plug Power |
Y |
| Spencer Grieco |
CSA America |
N |
| Steve Turner |
C&S Consultant |
N |
| Susan Townsend |
General Electric
Global Research Center |
N |
| Ted Williams |
American Gas Association (AGA) |
N |
| Terry Conrad |
Concurrent Technologies Corp. |
N |
| Tom Joseph |
Air Products and Chemicals |
N |
| Tony Androsky |
US Fuel Cell Council (USFCC) |
N |
| Jim Ohi |
National Renewable Energy Laboratory
(NREL) |
N |
| Russ Hewett |
National
Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) |
N |
OTHER PARTICIPANTS:
(1) Evan Butts, Ovonics (Substitute for Krishna Sapru)
|
