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You are here: Committee Resources > In-Person Proceedings > November 2005

November 2005

Corrected Minutes of the In-Person Meeting of the
National Hydrogen and Fuel Cells Codes and Standards Coordinating Committee

Russell Hewett, NREL


MEETING DATE: November 16, 2005
TIME: 7:30 - 9:30 AM (PST)
LOCATION: Wyndham Palm Springs Hotel, Palm Springs, CA

1.0 PARTICIPANTS
The list of meeting participants ( in-person and via teleconferencing) is provided in Attachment A.


2.0 REVIEW OF ANTI-TRUST POLICY
USFCC Codes and Standards Working Group meetings begin with the reminder to review and follow the anti-trust guidelines in the following documents:

Antitrust Guidelines (27Kb PDF)

Memo on Antitrust Guidelines (24Kb PDF)


3.0 CORRECTIONS TO MINUTES OF AUGUST MEETING
There were no additions or corrections to the Corrected Minutes of the October 12th teleconference meeting.


4.0 OPPORTUNITY FOR DOE/HQ SUBPROGRAM MANAGER TO
REPORT ON WHAT'S GOING ON AT DOE/HQ
Pat Davis (DOE/HQ Technology Development Manager for Safety, Codes and Standards), participating by teleconferencing, reported that the Congressional Conference Committee had completed its report for action by the Congress.

While the Administration has requested $182 million for the Hydrogen, Fuel Cell and Infrastructure Technologies Program, the Conference Committee recommended $157 million:

    $114 Million for the DOE Program
    $43 Million in Congressionally-directed projects

If the Program is funded at the $157 million level, this will be about $15 million less than the Program received in FY05. Pat expects that there will be some negative impacts on the Safety, Codes and Standards Subprogram.

Pat also reported that the competitive solicitation -- to be issued by DOE/HQ -- to select a contractor to put all of the subcontracted codes and standards development work into a single large contract is still planned. Currently, most of the work being done by CDOs and SDOs is funded directly by NREL. The solicitation will be delayed (probably for two weeks) in order for DOE to determine what impact (if any) the Conference Committee's proposed budget for the FY06 program will have. Most of the subcontracts planned for FY06 will be executed by NREL. The new "super contractor" will take over starting in FY07.

The question was asked of Pat regarding what the roles of the national laboratories would be when the new contracting procedure begins. Pat stated that, while the new contractor would handle most of the subcontract administration issues, the role of the national laboratories (NREL) would not change and will include:

  • Helping to formulate the codes and standards agenda
  • Coordinating codes and standards development work (e.g., harmonization)
  • Identifying priorities

The question was asked:

  • Assuming the FY06 budget for the program is $157 million as recommended by the Conference Committee, would it likely be reduced even more by a recision?
Pat recognized the possibility of a recision, but stated that, if there were to be a recision, it would likely be on the order or 1-2% (as has happened in the past).


5.0 GLOBAL TECHNICAL REGULATIONS (GTR) PROCESS AND
HOW IT FITS IN OVERALL SCHEME OF THINGS

The November/December In-Person meeting was planned with the expectation that there would be a briefing on the Global Technical Regulation (GTR) process and how it fitted into the scheme of things vis-à-vis hydrogen and fuel cell-related codes and standards development.

Mission Statement for the GTR process
(34Kb PDF)

Bill Chernicoff, on behalf of the US DOT National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), briefly discussed USDOT involvement in the GTR process and presented a status report (below):

USDOT Involvement in the GTR Process (96Kb PDF)

In addition, Bill made arrangements for the US DOT representative for the GTR process to join the meeting via teleconferencing:

Nha Nguyen, Senior Energy Advisor
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
Office of International Policy and Harmonization
400 Seventh Street, SW Room 5320
Washington, DC 20590
Telephone: (202) 366-6934
FAX: (202) 493-2290
Mr. Nguyen briefly discussed what the GTR process entailed and highlighted two issues that are being addressed:

  1. Selection of a chairperson for the Safety Subgroup
  2. The approach to be used in establishing GTRs: whether they should be design-based or based on self-certification (i.e., performance-based)

Since time was not available for Mr. Nguyen to completely address the GTR process, the question was posed as to whether or not it would be possible to have a teleconference meeting devoted totally to GTRs.

It was agreed that the January 2006 teleconference meeting would be devoted to the GTR process - the meeting to feature Mr. Nguyen.


6.0 REPORT ON HYDROGEN FUEL QUALITY WORK
Jim Ohi gave a report on the status of the efforts to develop an ISO hydrogen fuel quality Technical Specification (below).

ISO Hydrogen Fuel Quality Technical Specification (63Kb PDF)

Of special significance, Jim reported that:

  1. The ISO draft technical specification that address hydrogen fuel quality for PEM fuel cell road vehicles (TS ISO 14687-2 Hydrogen Fuel - Product Specification Part 2) has been harmonized with SAE J2719 (Technical Information Report: Hydrogen Compositional Guideline), except for carbon dioxide. In generating the next version of J2719, SAE is expected to adopt the ISO carbon dioxide limit.
  2. TS ISO 14687-2 is expected to be approved by ISO TC/197 in
    December 2006.
  3. Working Group 12 agreed to work to move ISO 14687-2 from a technical specification to an international standard with a timetable to be specified by ISO TC/197.

7.0 RESULTS FROM ISO TC/197 PLENARY MEETING AND
REPORT ON ISO ACTIVITIES
Bob Mauro (Chairman of the US ISO TC/197 TAG) reported on: (1) the results from the meeting of the US TAG held on October 27th in Chantilly, VA; and (2) ongoing TC/197, including documents in the comments process. Bob's report is available below:


US TAG Meeting Results (78Kb PDF)

Jessie Schneider (DaimlerChrysler) mentioned that there would be an important tank standardization meeting next week (December 8th) at SAE in Troy, MI, although it would not be an official SAE meeting. Members of the following would be participating:

  • ISO TC/197 WG12, SAE J2579, the
  • SAE J2579
  • Japanese Automotive Research Institute (JARI)
  • European Integrated Hydrogen Project (EIHP)
  • European Union (EU)
  • NHTSA
  • CSA America
The objective of the meeting would be to try to gain a consensus for impending standards/regulations - some of which are going to be solidified in the next three months (e.g., ISO TC/197 WG12). Jessie mentioned that, for those unable to attend in person, there would be a call-in number.

Jessie sent out the following invitation:
To all those concerned,

This is to propose a joint hydrogen "Tank Standard" discussion with the different SDO's for the purpose of attempting to harmonize direction regarding content of the draft standards.

This would be a meeting where members of the SAE, ISO, EIHP, and CSA hydrogen standards developing committees could discuss concepts (such as performance based, system based, component based, etc)/ maybe details of direction(cycle life ,etc?) and timelines in an informal forum. The ultimate goal from this meeting would be to put together a skeleton document of who is doing what, and a roadmap forward.

There are time pressing issues such as regulations being proposed/ already finalized in some countries where such a meeting would be very timely.

What we are proposing is to have a meeting at the SAE headquarters in Troy, Michigan (yes, it's going to be cold!). The SAE J2579 meeting will be finished on 12/7/05 and many of those members will be there in person.

Please invite team members from your respective teams as well as other organizations that would be beneficial to get onboard.
Attached is a proposed agenda- please feel free to send me your feedback.

Please respond by EOB 11/ 21 to me directly.

Thank you.

Regards,

Jesse M. Schneider
DaimlerChrysler Corporation
Telephone: (248) 576-3324


The draft proposed agenda for the meeting is available below:

"Tank Standard" Meeting Agenda (69Kb PDF)



8.0 REPORT ON IEC TC/105 ACTIVITIES AND DOCUMENTS
IN THE "COMMENTS" PHASE
Kelvin Hecht (chairman of the US IEC/TC105 TAG) reported on IEC TC/105 activities and documents in the "Comments" phase. Kelvin's report is available below:

IEC TC/105 Activities (103Kb PDF)



9.0 REPORT ON USFCC PRIORITIES FOR THE FUEL CELL
INDUSTRY
Sondra Ullman (chairperson of the USFCC Codes and Standards Working Group) gave a report articulating the codes and standards development priorities (by application) from the USFCC perspective. Her report is available below:

C&S Development Priorities (102Kb PDF)


10.0 REPORT ON NATIONAL HYDROGEN ASSOCIATION (NHA)
PRIORITIES
Karen Hall reported on the codes and standards development priorities of the NHA. Her report is available below:

NHA Priorities (134Kb PDF)


11.0 SOCIETY OF AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERS (SAE) PRIORITIES
Ron Sims (outgoing chairman of SAE's Fuel Cell Standards Committee) reported on the codes and standards development-related priorities of SAE. His report is available below:

SAE Fuel Cell Standards Priorities (412Kb PDF)


NEXT MEETING OF THE HC&SCC
Since the In-Person meeting served as the November/December meeting of the Coordinating Committee, the next meeting will be a Teleconference Meeting in January 2006.

It will be conducted on the Second Wednesday -- rather than the First Wednesday -- as follows:

  • DATE: January 11th (Second Wednesday)
  • TIME: 3:00 - 4:30 pm EDT
The Call-In Number and the Agenda will be disseminated as part of the Initial and Final Announcements.

As mentioned earlier in the Minutes:
It was agreed that the January 2006 teleconference meeting would be devoted to the Global Technical Regulations process (i.e., what GTRs mean vis-à-vis commercialization of the fuel cell and hydrogen technologies). The meeting will feature Mr. Nha Nguyen (USDOT NHTSA/Office of International Policy and Harmonization).
Respectfully submitted,

Russ Hewett


ATTACHMENT A
PARTICIPANTS IN THE NOVEMBER/DECEMBER 2005 MEETING OF THE NATIONAL HYDROGEN AND FUEL CELLS
CODES AND STANDARDS COORDINATING COMMITTEE


NAMEORGANIZATIONPRESENT
AT MEETING

(Yes/No)
Adam GromisCalifornia Fuel Cell Partnership 
Algis VasysVista Consulting Group 
Andrei TchouvelevA. V. Tchouvelev & Associates, Inc. 
Antonio RuizUSDOE/Hydrogen, Fuel Cell and Infrastructure Technologies ProgramY
Bill ChernicoffUSDOT/Research and Innovative Technologies Administration(RITA)/WashingtonY
Bill CollinsUTC Fuel CellsY
Bob MauroConsultant to NRELY
Brad SmithShell Hydrogen 
Brian WalshUS Fuel Cell Council 
 Bruce Kinzey Pacific Northwest Laboratory 
Carl RivkinNational Fire Protection Association (NFPA)Y
Cathy Gregoire-PadroLos Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) 
Christina Zhang-Tillman California Fuel Cell Partnership 
Christopher MoenSandia National Laboratories/Livermore 
Dan CaseyChevronTexaco 
Darren MeyersInternational Code Council (ICC) 
Debbie AngermanCompressed Gas Association (CGA) 
Doug HorneClean Vehicle Education Foundation 
Gary HowardA. V. Tchouvelev & Associates, Inc. 
George KervitskySENTECH 
George ThomasConsultant to SandiaNational Laboratories 
Gerry MyersSPRINT 
Greg MilewskiShell Oil Products 
Hank SeiffClean Vehicle Education Foundation 
Holly ThomasNational Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)Y
Jeff GrantBallard Generation Systems 
Jesse SchneiderDaimlerChryslerY
Jim McGetrickBP 
John KoehrAmerican Society of Mechanical Engineers (ASME) 
Juana WilliamsNIST  
Julie CairnsCSA America 
Karen Miller HallNational Hydrogen Association (NHA)Y
Julie WilletsSPRINT 
Keith HardyArgonne National Laboratory 
Kelvin HechtANSI, IEC and Consultant to NRELY
Ken KrastinsPlug Power 
Larry JohnsonSPRINT 
Larry MoulthropProton Energy SystemsY
Laurie FlorenceUnderwriter LaboratoriesY
Mark RichardsGas Technology InstituteY
Michael SteeleGeneral Motors Advanced Technology VehiclesY
Nha NguyenNHTSA/Office of International Policy and HarmonizationY
(New Member)
Patrick SerfassNational Hydrogen Association (NHA) 
Pat DavisUSDOE/Hydrogen, Fuel Cell and Infrastructure Technologies ProgramY
Paul BuehlerPlug Power, Inc.(New Member)
Prentiss SearlesAmerican Petroleum Institute (API) 
Robert WichertUS Fuel Cell Council (USFCC) 
Rody StephensonMotor Vehicle Fire Research InstituteY
Roger SmithCompressed Gas Association (CGA) 
Ron SimsSociety of Automobile Engineers (SAE) and Consultant to NRELY
Sondra UllmanPlug PowerY
Spencer GriecoCSA America 
Steve TurnerC&S Consultant 
Susan TownsendGeneral Electric Global Research Center 
Ted WilliamsAmerican Gas Association (AGA)  
Terry ConradConcurrent Technologies Corp. 
Tom JosephAir Products and Chemicals 
Tony AndroskyUS Fuel Cell Council (USFCC)Y
Jim OhiNational Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL)Y
Russ HewettNational Renewable Energy LaboratoryY


OTHER PARTICIPANTS

(1) Anna Stukas (Angstrum Power, Inc.)
(2) Bill Lueckel (Renewable Fuels Association)
(3) Dr. Chi S. Wang (Da Yeh University)
(4) Gregory M. Smith (Millennium Cell, Inc.)
(5) John Kopasz (Argonne National Laaboratory)
(6) Leo Grassilli (Department of the Navy)
(7) Steve Kazubsky (CSA America)
(8) Vio Duma (Renewable Fuels Association)